PLEASE HELP !! Can't pass M Class License Test in Pennsylvania !!

Yes, I've extended my permit once already and have ridden on it for over 2 years. I've driven out of state and also at night many many times, but being very very careful. There is nowhere on my license that says I can't drive at night or out of state, so I planned to just feign ignorance if I am ever stopped - "Officer, no one ever told me I couldn't do that when I took my permit test!!" *LOL* Someone recently told me they have a friend that has ridden sport bikes and Harleys and has extended his permit for 10+ years! Said he knew he'd never pass the test on his bike (maybe just terrible fear of testing?). I DO want to get my license and be done with it, but just have to find a place reasonable enough to accept what the bike can DO on the test course!

I'm also registered to take the msf course in May if I can't succeed with my Spyder, although I dread it, because I DO NOT WANT TO RIDE 2 WHEELS and I'm terrified that I won't pass the course, but everyone says it is impossible to fail the msf course and that they work with UNTIL you pass. Hope that's true, in case I can't successfully take my test on the spyder.

bill steele said:

If I where you I would take the MSF course You will learn quite alot that you can transfer to your Spyder riding. I'm surprised that you where able to ride on a permit for so long, where you able to leave your state, and drive at night, also where you able to carry a passenger. Most MSF courses use 250 motorcycles and don't go above 20 mph, does your state give you a lic. by passing Msf course. Good luck!

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I just wondered the same thing

I took my test on a motor scooter about two years ago and my wife took it on a scooter with a trike kit installed.

I was riding with my group and we had to make a U turn on a very narrow street. They were surprised at how wide the turning circle is. I also live in PA and i can see any possible way to do a figure 8 in the box, nor for that matter the swerve maneuver unless they widen both the box for the figure 8 as wel as the "lanes" for the swerve.

The manual shows a lot of practice items but I am not sure what distance they are using. The figure 8 area for the Basic rider exam is 20 feet wide I think. I do not think there is any possible way to do a figure 8 on the spyder with an 20 foot width. If memory serves me, there was a rule for the Piaggio MP3 requiring at least two of the three wheels to remain in the box.

Frankly I think they should use the MV road test since the bike does not lean, and the turning radius is much wider than on a large trike. You might want to check with the MSF people. I had to get an OK for my wife to take her test on her motor-scooter with a "tow-Pak" trike kit attached. Since it uses the rear drive wheel technically there are 4 wheels in contact with the pavement and they had to do some checking before they gave the OK.

They may have some rules of their own, and it would be worth checking. They were very nice when I called regarding my wife's class.

Spydergirl,

You haven't done anything wrong. But simply because you want to ride a different type of motorcycle you are at the leading edge of getting a fair shake from your state licensing and motorcycle safety departments.

It's not fair that you can't get a license through normal channels, but I sense that you are a fighter, and your efforts in getting your state to recognize and meet the needs of Spyder drivers will help pave the way for those three-wheeled motorcyclists who follow you.

Getting trained and licensed is difficult in many states at this time, because of some long-term policies and attitudes held dear by the authorities have been focused almost exclusively on two-wheeled motorcycles.

Basically, the Motorcycle Safety Foundation is the elephant in the room. And the MSF has--until very recently--been not simply disinterested in three-wheeler training/licensing issues, but adamantly opposed to any integration of three-wheelers into the system. Until BRP came along, there were no manufacturers making or marketing three-wheelers, who contributed to the finances of the MSF. Therefore, no training. And since training is the key to getting licensed, no training means getting a license is difficult--or even impossible.

I suggest your first step is to contact the Pennsylvania Motorcycle Safety Administrator and request a "3BRC" course, as soon as possible. The 3BRC is the MSF's answer to trike traiing, and this course should be available to all state programs. The man in charge is:

Mr. David Surgenor
State Coordinator
Motorcycle Safety Program
56 Grumbacher Road, Suite A
York, PA 17406
Phone 717/849-5156
FAX: 717/849-5166

You should be adamant that you want a three-wheeler course, not a two-wheeler course, because: 1. You have physical limitations that prevent you from safely operating a two-wheeled motorcycle, and 2. You feel that the two-wheeler skills taught in the "BRC" would be DANGEROUS if attempted on a trike such as the Spyder. You don't wish to have to unlearn the two-wheeler skills and then teach yourself the correct three-wheeler skills.

Mention that the PA motorcycle safety program has a responsibility to train ALL motorcyclists. If the administrator responds that they don't offer the 3BRC, then demand that PA send you to VIrginia to take the Sidecar/Trike Education Program, and cover your expenses. Ask if the S/TEP completion card would be accepted as a skills test waiver by the PA Dept of Licensing. If not, ask what skills test PA offers as part of any training course that would provide a skills test waiver.

I don't know whether or not motorcyclists in PA pay a license surcharge to support training, but if so, you should demand that PA provide training for you on a three-wheeled motorcycle as you are requesting.

Don't expect the administrator to cave in immediately. But other states are also in the same situation, and don't want to have to deal with the issues. It may require lawsuits by people with leg limitations to get them to honor the federal Citizens With Disabilties act. And I consider having legs too short (too weak, too whatever) to ride a bike as qualifying a person to have a need for a three-wheeler.

I will open a new string to further explain the situation.

pmdave