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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Would like to hear from anyone who has installed the Bajaron Front Shock Adjusters, specifically
what were the improvements. I have their swaybar in my 14' RTL but quite disappointed
with the present high speed cornering.

Thanks
Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you for your reply...I'm asking about adjusters...trying to do a step at a time...$200 is
an easier bite to take compared to $1300+
If I install them I would likely have them nearly maxed out...which will make smooth straight roads
seem not so smooth I would think.
 

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If I install them I would likely have them nearly maxed out...which will make smooth straight roads
seem not so smooth I would think.
What exactly are you trying to accomplish here ?

It is generally a BAD idea to try and convert non-adjustable shocks into adjustable ones by adding "coil overs".'

That will just increase the spring rate and not the stiffness of the shock action.
Which is similar to what the adjustment on the outside of "adjustable" shocks does.
It really is a spring adjustment and NOT a shock adjustment.

P.S. Are you leaning into "high speed corners" ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks again for your input...greatly appreciated...here is what I'm trying to address:

Higher speed corners on the RT, I find, results in a dangerous experience...more of
a lane edge to lane edge dance (not fun). I had this experience a few weeks back:

I start into the turn (an on-ramp from one freeway into another turning left at the posted 45) fine
looking well out through the curve and pushing/pulling the bars with a light touch...so far so good...
then its clear its under-steering so I exert a tiny amount of additional pressure to tighten the turn up
slightly to the left and then it suddenly over steers to a dangerous point and to keep from leaving the
lane to the left (headed for the weeds) I ease up and it goes back to an under-steer condition so to
keep in the lane on the right side I add more pressure and the oscillating cycle repeats, going lane edge
to lane edge, until I slow down or come out of the turn. I slowed down to about 40 and was slowing traffic
behind (not a big deal if needed).

I read many comments saying that once I did this technique or that it becomes great fun and a blast
to ride....I think I have tried most if not all of what I read without success. Before we got ours we took
a can-am 2 day class where we rode Rykers (bad idea)...as the expectation for the RT was fun
straights and fun cornering. The RT is fabulous...going straight...once one learns the light touch
necessity.

So that's what I'm trying to address...comments are indeed welcome.
 

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So that's what I'm trying to address...comments are indeed welcome.
Tires and alignment......since you already have the upgraded sway bar.
What tire pressures are you running ? Low pressures or the fronts not being equal can be a problem.

Then.....are you leaning into "high speed" corners ? You should be "planting" your inside foot and hugging the tank with your outside knee. This make YOU more stable and your steering inputs more precise.

Do you have a "primary" side of the bars for steering input on curves; I find that the inside works best for me and the outside hand does little to nothing.

And now I have to tell the truth: What you FEEL is understeer/oversteer likely really isn't but just is your perception of what a 2 wheeled vehicle would do in a similar circumstance. That is.......your automatic responses haven't been "retrained" yet and this results in over-correction by the rider. You need to do some practice where there is no traffic behind you and try to trust the machine a little more so that you don't apply as much correction when you perceive a problem.

But tires and alignment will help with that a LOT. So will keeping the pressures up.
So will more time in the seat, but you have to practice doing it right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Thanks again for your helpful reply...greatly appreciated...really.

Just checked the tires (left) and its at 18psi (+/- Gage tolerance). The tires are somewhat new...the PO just
put new OEM ones on...would it be worth putting car tires on for a stiffer sidewall? (hate to replace new tires)

You mentioned: "You should be "planting" your inside foot and hugging the tank with your outside knee." What I mainly try re techniques is planting opposite side foot heavy on floorboard and pressing
hard on the tank with leading side knee to assist with leaning into the turn (this seems opposite to what you
mentioned - thats very helpful as its something new to try...is it kinda like countering the sway of the RT body?)...tried various levels of leaning...from just a little to scaring the wife I'm going off the side.

Re steering...tried emphasis on inside...then tried outside...then a degree of both.
I recall being sensitive to just how much pressure to exert to keep from over compensating...it does
get exciting when I push/pull a little...then a little more...then the lane edge gets in play in a hurry and its time
for a lot more push/pull to stay out of the weeds.

Agree I need to do more practice and not on a packed freeway on-ramp going 65mph...

Prolly like many of us we made a serious financial commitment and the thought of
putting another $2-3k into it just to make it manageable for me is tough.

Thanks again for your insights...its been quite a frustrating experience and your inputs give one to hope.
Tom
 

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.would it be worth putting car tires on for a stiffer sidewall? (hate to replace new tires)

You mentioned: "You should be "planting" your inside foot and hugging the tank with your outside knee."

Thanks again for your insights...its been quite a frustrating experience and your inputs give one to hope.
Tom
Tires: IF they are the original OEM Kendas, then it probably would help. I changed mine when they were fairly new.
But if they are the newer Kanine model, then maybe not.
Pump them up to about 24 just as a test.
I do not think that it will be worth your money to replace the shocks.......unless you are riding like you are on a track in a race. If so.......STOP THAT !!

Maybe I didn't explain the "leaning" too good.
If you actually move your body slightly to the inside and consciously lean that way too, you should automatically end up with more weight on your inside foot AND your outside knee touching the tank. This makes your body more stable and should reduce the feeling of over-steering. I still think that it FEELS a lot worse than it really IS.

I absolutely hated my RT at first. It took me about 6 months and several thousand miles.........and new tires and a laser alignment......before I got comfortable. There are still some days when it doesn't feel right but that is after about 50 years of riding on 2 wheels.


Looking THROUGH the turns helped a lot too. Practicing that in the CAR too helped me get back in that habit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ok...just got back from a trial run with tires at 24 psi (looks like they are the original Kenda's) and putting more weight on inside foot and concentrating on looking way through the turns. Significantly better...something with a bit more practice I believe I can live quite happily with.

Regarding tires...looks like some performance auto tires are the way to go...should they also be at the higher end of
the recommended psi reading?
Now to find some.

Thanks again for your recommendations...greatly appreciated.
 

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Significantly better...something with a bit more practice I believe I can live quite happily with.

Regarding tires...looks like some performance auto tires are the way to go...should they also be at the higher end of
the recommended psi reading?
I took a short ride yesterday and I still have not explained the "leaning" properly.
3rd time the charm, hopefully:

When you start a turn, the momentum will try to move your body OUT to the outside of the seat.
You counter that with a firm outside leg......and an inside knee on the tank.
That makes your body a lot more stable.

Whether or not you also actually lean your upper body to the inside is, I believe, not really important unless the speed is REALLY high or the radius REALLY tight.

You don't want to go overboard with "performance" tires because they generally have a bit more flex in the sidewalls and that is part of the problem with the OEM Kendas.

When I was shopping, I was looking for a tread pattern that puts a LOT of rubber on the road and does not have large straight grooves going straight around.
I NEVER ride in more that a light sprinkle of rain so "wet" performance isn't a concern for me.

What I got is working out OK......but I've since seen some I think would be better.
They actually are marketed as "winter tires".

Tire pressure: With two extra plies and stiffer sidewalls, I found that the "recommended" pressures work just fine.
But I also found that all 3 lose about 2 PSI a month regardless of the weather (temperature).......and I can "feel" when they are down about 4. I now have a TPMS system to help with that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
What you said about pushing on the outside foot and inside knee to the tank makes sense. Been looking
at tires and the Quatrac looks promising...not many circular grooves and has better cornering force than the older Quatrac-5 that seems to be popular. There is one tire thats a 165/55R15 that seems to be available is an Achilles Economist but havent seen many spyders using them...a lot of guys seem to be running 165/60R15, due mainly to availability I would think, but I would also think the higher profile would be counter to what we are after.
What winter tire have you looked at? Will it have a stiffer sidewall?
 

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What winter tire have you looked at? Will it have a stiffer sidewall?
None specifically yet.

They tend to have a softer compound and small grooves to get as much rubber on the road as possible.
Probably not good for riding in the rain though.
No not a stiffer sidewall, I think.

A lot of folks seem to like the Vredesteins but I don't know which model.
I personally would not consider the Achilles based on a quick search, because there are too many deep straight tread grooves that likely would tend to "follow" grooves in the pavement.
 

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My 2021 RT LTD came with the stock Kendas of course. I cannot say they are that bad as OEM tires go. I checked my alignment with my bore sight tool to check it was at least a little toe in. I think if you were running some toe out it could be much less stable. Two times 165 mm is a fair amount of rubber on the road for a 1000 lb vehicle. I've tried quite hard to get the front of mine to actually drift out with any large amount of under steer on a decent road surface. I think you would have to be going much faster than the vehicle was designed for, or on a very rolling bumpy surface unloading the front suspension, to get the thing to do anything truly scary. I find braking (or downshifting), turning and then powering out works well (see Dave Moss on 2 Clicks Out on youtube). I think the weight shift to the front on entry and the weight shift to the rear on just before apex to exit seems the way to go for me. I don't think it likes braking into the corner as you would on a motorcycle trail braking for high corner speed. Mine gets all out of shape if I try that.

I cannot personally complain about freeway junctions and other high speed curves. Slow speed canyon stuff seems OK as well even 2 up. It took me a while and a Can Am training school to get confident in it, but it seems to get better as everything beds in. Yes, it rolls a bit and the front suspension is a little on the soft side. Yes it seems to under steer if I run a bit more pressure in the front tires, even a few pounds, but it is better on the freeway if I do air up a bit. But overall it not a bad old bus and can surely run at speeds approaching enough to scare me on my 2018 T120.

Overall, for a touring "motorcycle", I think the performance is perfectly reasonable and perfectly safe. No, it is nowhere near as quick as my big sport tourer was that I traded for it, but with the arthritis getting worse it's a fun alternative.

Having tried a Harley trike and a Gold Wing trike, this thing is just miles faster and more stable through bends at just about any speed in my opinion. The Harley trike just scared the living daylights out of me even in the parking lot. The Gold Wing built speed faster than it felt safe to, corners came up just a little too quickly for me. I'm sure they both have their fans but I thought the Can Am was better thought out (but nowhere near their build quality).

Your mileage may vary of course and both your riding skills, limits and expectations may be probably way beyond mine on 2 wheels and 3.
 

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Buy a set of after-market front shocks. I bought a set of Elka's for my 2015RT LTD. Corrected exactly what you are talking about.
The rebound on the stock shock is not dampened enough. When you the left hand sweeper at speed, the left shock loads, but doesn't dampen the push-back from the compression recoil. So, the left spring pushes back, relatively un-abated.
The nose rolls to the right, loading the right spring. Right spring rebounds.
Repeat.

I have an interchange from one freeway to another on my way to work. It scared the crap out of me at 60. I've since taken it at 75. The bike digs and locks on the line.

Same problem, different manifestation on the rear. Run over a manhole cover that is lower than the surrounding road surface. You'll wonder what broke when the rear tire slams into them manhole cover.
 

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I think you are right about the front shocks, they are nothing to write home about. Just a bit soft and neither the compression or rebound damping is quite up to snuff.

However once you get used to it, it's not too bad. Once they have sorted out my continually occurring C210A error codes on the rear, I might think about upgrading the fronts. The rear seems better damped, just a little soft for 2 up with luggage but I can't figure that out for sure until I see the results of them having fixed it's inability to set the correct ride height.

The soft sidewalls on the front tires might also contribute to the soft feeling suspension too. Soft, saggy sidewalls will show up as a lower initial spring rate and low initial compression damping or a lack of final rebound damping as the weight transfers on and off the wheel. So by my twisted logic, I would change the tires to stiffer sidewall car tires first, then the shocks, then the anti roll bar.

Any advice would be welcome.
 

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I think you are right about the front shocks, they are nothing to write home about. Just a bit soft and neither the compression or rebound damping is quite up to snuff.

However once you get used to it, it's not too bad. Once they have sorted out my continually occurring C210A error codes on the rear, I might think about upgrading the fronts. The rear seems better damped, just a little soft for 2 up with luggage but I can't figure that out for sure until I see the results of them having fixed it's inability to set the correct ride height.

The soft sidewalls on the front tires might also contribute to the soft feeling suspension too. Soft, saggy sidewalls will show up as a lower initial spring rate and low initial compression damping or a lack of final rebound damping as the weight transfers on and off the wheel. So by my twisted logic, I would change the tires to stiffer sidewall car tires first, then the shocks, then the anti roll bar.

Any advice would be welcome. I forgot to mention I'm running Continental
I forgot to mention that I'm running Continental tires up front, and a Kenda Kanine in the rear, and the after-market sway bar.
But, I can honestly say, the Elka shocks made a difference in cornering. I can honestly say that they made a difference.
 

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I forgot to mention that I'm running Continental tires up front, and a Kenda Kanine in the rear, and the after-market sway bar.
But, I can honestly say, the Elka shocks made a difference in cornering. I can honestly say that they made a difference.
Does it make any difference to you that the Conti's are only T speed rating, not that I go 118 mph, or do you think they work fine and the speed rating is nothing to be concerned about? Just interested on your feelings on the matter as you are using them in the real world.
 
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