G
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·Has anyone got a machine coming on the first allocations? I ordered mine on February 8th and still no word as to when. I heard September, now October some time. Has any one gotten a date or serial number yet?
Delivery
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according to our rep we're getting the first ones in the third week of october
G
Guest
·So maybe they are sending out several trucks and we in Minnesota will get ours then as well. Thanks.
G
Guest
·Calm waters
Everyone seems pretty calm in the forum. I have read a lot of discontent among the troops on others.
Everyone seems pretty calm in the forum. I have read a lot of discontent among the troops on others.
It's like my Father used to say:
1: I'd rather wait..... and it be right
2: With patience and persistence all things are possible
3: You get a lot more with sugar than salt
4: Worrying never makes it happen faster (planning does!)
OK, maybe they weren't all his
As a Manufacturing Program Manager who has coordinated several new product production launches..... I can say, "Even when planned to the last electron, stuff happens". Can-Am is being tight lipped on deliveries because they would rather not have to make people unhappy when a delivery date is not met..... don't set one, and you can't miss it
The way they answered the "Rate per day" question in the chat session was classic..... again, can't miss the rate if it is not released.....
Even with all the miles testing, the pilot builds for the demo units, and from what I can see in the picture of the well planned out assembly process (Spyder #1), there will be unexpected snafu's... a supplier does not deliver on time, something is dimensionally out of specification, the paint color from supplier a does not match that of supplier b and so-on and so-forth.
My other passion is the Dodge Viper (my other hobby site is http://www.theviperregistry.org). So I have watched the same thing happen in the manufacture of Vipers.. in two different plants through four generations of product launches. Can-Am is doing it right, I'm sure they wish they could let every buyer know the date of their Spyders delivery, and at some point, I'm sure that is how it will be done. But for a new product assembly launch, the reality is.... they just can't do that. I know the wait has to be killing you, but when you drive your Spyder off, it will all be worth it! Plus with Global warming, you'll be able to drive it until Christmas
It's like my Father used to say:
1: I'd rather wait..... and it be right
2: With patience and persistence all things are possible
3: You get a lot more with sugar than salt
4: Worrying never makes it happen faster (planning does!)
OK, maybe they weren't all his
As a Manufacturing Program Manager who has coordinated several new product production launches..... I can say, "Even when planned to the last electron, stuff happens". Can-Am is being tight lipped on deliveries because they would rather not have to make people unhappy when a delivery date is not met..... don't set one, and you can't miss it
The way they answered the "Rate per day" question in the chat session was classic..... again, can't miss the rate if it is not released.....
Even with all the miles testing, the pilot builds for the demo units, and from what I can see in the picture of the well planned out assembly process (Spyder #1), there will be unexpected snafu's... a supplier does not deliver on time, something is dimensionally out of specification, the paint color from supplier a does not match that of supplier b and so-on and so-forth.
My other passion is the Dodge Viper (my other hobby site is http://www.theviperregistry.org). So I have watched the same thing happen in the manufacture of Vipers.. in two different plants through four generations of product launches. Can-Am is doing it right, I'm sure they wish they could let every buyer know the date of their Spyders delivery, and at some point, I'm sure that is how it will be done. But for a new product assembly launch, the reality is.... they just can't do that. I know the wait has to be killing you, but when you drive your Spyder off, it will all be worth it! Plus with Global warming, you'll be able to drive it until Christmas
G
Guest
·Oh I am quite familiar with production issues especially on new start ups. I was just noting how quiet this forum has been as of late. I was a senior production control scheduler for years. So do you have any input on engine break in for V-Twins, I have been reading one extreme to the next.
I have snowmobile gear so it won't by much different than riding a sled inthe cold=)
I have snowmobile gear so it won't by much different than riding a sled inthe cold=)
Engine Break-in
To play the corporate line
From the owners manual:
During the first 625 miles
- avoid full throttle acceleration
- avoid prolonged riding
- if cooling fan operates continually during stop and go traffic, pull over and shutoff the engine to let it cool off or speed up to let air cool off the engine
I had to smile when I read this, specially the first two......
Everything I have read about this engine is good.... it's tough, smooth, and virtually bullet proof.
Biggest thing is to not let it overheat, and to not run it at the same RPM for any extended period of time.
The reason any manufacturer recommends no full throttle acceleration during break-in has to do with metal to metal contact... it will happen until all the "high spots" are gone and lubrication gets into all the nooks and crannies. (definition=break-in), the risk is that more than the high spots will come off creating pits in surfaces if the "hydrodynamic film" breaks down, this is most likely in the high-velocity situations of full throttle conditions. (Did I mention my degree is in Mechanical Engineering?)
My day job is in a plant that make Scroll A/C compressors, we have break-in coating designed to hold lubrication during break-in, as the compressor breaks in, the coating "holds lubrication" and actually gets worn away on the high spots, leaving a "fitted surface".
Now, with all that said, I can tell you how I break-in a new or rebuilt engine...
Fresh Oil
Up on jack stands
Big Fan or fans in front of the radiator
Fire it up and for about an hour do the following:
about a minute or so at each:
idle, 2000, 3000, 4000, 3000, 2000, mellow run from idle to 4000 and back to idle
repeat until the hour is done.
All the while, watching the temp. If the fan is/are big enough, this should be no issue.
Engine builders all have their own variation of total time, times at each rpm and rpms, (usually done on a dyno under load by pro builders)... this would be where the disagreements usually are We need to see what times/numbers the Aprilia racing folks are doing for their rebuilds.
Of course, this can all be done on the road, better because under load, but you'll sure get a lot of funny looks, best done in the boonies
Once done, change the oil and filter, check for metal, if none, the engine is ready to go.
One point, sometime the initial oil fill has additives, so draining will remove these.... will need to check on this one.
This is just what I do, no guaranty or warranty implied or expressed (LOL)...
For what its worth, two of my current vehicles are over 200K right now without an engine rebuild.
By the way, I'm both ViperJay and Spyderman... one of these day's I'm going to get around to combining the two user names... hope this is not casing any confusion
To play the corporate line
From the owners manual:
During the first 625 miles
- avoid full throttle acceleration
- avoid prolonged riding
- if cooling fan operates continually during stop and go traffic, pull over and shutoff the engine to let it cool off or speed up to let air cool off the engine
I had to smile when I read this, specially the first two......
Everything I have read about this engine is good.... it's tough, smooth, and virtually bullet proof.
Biggest thing is to not let it overheat, and to not run it at the same RPM for any extended period of time.
The reason any manufacturer recommends no full throttle acceleration during break-in has to do with metal to metal contact... it will happen until all the "high spots" are gone and lubrication gets into all the nooks and crannies. (definition=break-in), the risk is that more than the high spots will come off creating pits in surfaces if the "hydrodynamic film" breaks down, this is most likely in the high-velocity situations of full throttle conditions. (Did I mention my degree is in Mechanical Engineering?)
My day job is in a plant that make Scroll A/C compressors, we have break-in coating designed to hold lubrication during break-in, as the compressor breaks in, the coating "holds lubrication" and actually gets worn away on the high spots, leaving a "fitted surface".
Now, with all that said, I can tell you how I break-in a new or rebuilt engine...
Fresh Oil
Up on jack stands
Big Fan or fans in front of the radiator
Fire it up and for about an hour do the following:
about a minute or so at each:
idle, 2000, 3000, 4000, 3000, 2000, mellow run from idle to 4000 and back to idle
repeat until the hour is done.
All the while, watching the temp. If the fan is/are big enough, this should be no issue.
Engine builders all have their own variation of total time, times at each rpm and rpms, (usually done on a dyno under load by pro builders)... this would be where the disagreements usually are
We need to see what times/numbers the Aprilia racing folks are doing for their rebuilds.Of course, this can all be done on the road, better because under load, but you'll sure get a lot of funny looks, best done in the boonies
Once done, change the oil and filter, check for metal, if none, the engine is ready to go.
One point, sometime the initial oil fill has additives, so draining will remove these.... will need to check on this one.
This is just what I do, no guaranty or warranty implied or expressed (LOL)...
For what its worth, two of my current vehicles are over 200K right now without an engine rebuild.
By the way, I'm both ViperJay and Spyderman... one of these day's I'm going to get around to combining the two user names... hope this is not casing any confusion
G
Guest
·Break In
http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Do you agree with this than? It does follow what you are saying, Going through the power band, not full throttle! I was planning on going 20 miles, hopefully not in the snow, shift up to 4th gear and done over and over giving a health throttle crack and good load on the down shift. I was also strongly considering dumping the oil after that. Motorman suggests not using synthetic for the first 1500 miles either.
http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Do you agree with this than? It does follow what you are saying, Going through the power band, not full throttle! I was planning on going 20 miles, hopefully not in the snow, shift up to 4th gear and done over and over giving a health throttle crack and good load on the down shift. I was also strongly considering dumping the oil after that. Motorman suggests not using synthetic for the first 1500 miles either.
I'll have to read it a few times....
I'll have to read it a few more times, on the surface his basic premise is correct, it takes combustion pressure and piston speed to properly seat piston rings... but remember, that is not the only thing your are breaking in.... Also I'm not so sure about the wisdom of full throttle run on any new engine as it is not a good plan for new "plain" bearings as the peak force at each end of the pistons stroke "could" cause film loss on rod and crank bearings and you could easily do not so good things to the the new valves....
I'm going to talk to my "oil expert" friend on not using synthetic initially. On the surface it makes sense as the whole idea is to seat the rings, and that quite frankly takes friction/heat.... which synthetic is good at preventing/carrying away I run synthetic in everything I own. But from day one only the Viper came from the factory with it as the fill, so technically, all the others started with conventional oil. The Viper simply does not get enough miles to know if the synthetic from birth is good or bad.
In the Spyder manual they DO say to change the oil and filter after the 625 mi break-in, they also have the dealer check the valve clearances.
They make kits so snowmobiles can be run in the summer, a studded rear tire and front ski retrofit, and your Spyder might handle the snow
I'll have to read it a few more times, on the surface his basic premise is correct, it takes combustion pressure and piston speed to properly seat piston rings... but remember, that is not the only thing your are breaking in.... Also I'm not so sure about the wisdom of full throttle run on any new engine as it is not a good plan for new "plain" bearings as the peak force at each end of the pistons stroke "could" cause film loss on rod and crank bearings and you could easily do not so good things to the the new valves....
I'm going to talk to my "oil expert" friend on not using synthetic initially. On the surface it makes sense as the whole idea is to seat the rings, and that quite frankly takes friction/heat.... which synthetic is good at preventing/carrying away
I run synthetic in everything I own. But from day one only the Viper came from the factory with it as the fill, so technically, all the others started with conventional oil. The Viper simply does not get enough miles to know if the synthetic from birth is good or bad.In the Spyder manual they DO say to change the oil and filter after the 625 mi break-in, they also have the dealer check the valve clearances.
G
Guest
·Thanks, fun subject. As you stated previously, are not the engines run at the factory as well? Do you think they put them through the paces there?
My best guess on engine testing.
After this test, the rest of body and interior assembly is usually done.
This is just an educated guess at this point though.
A the Viper assembly plant this is not a super aggressive run, just one to ensure all the mechanical work as designed. Vipers are also randomly pulled for a road test by Quality control, if I recall, this one is about 6 miles. I see no reason that BRP Quality Control would not do something similar. Some plants have a special battery of tests they run on random units, and even randomly disassemble a completed unit.
Engine testing is done at the engine plant with very specialized test units. They are run, but not in the way most people consider "run". The test units are highly specialized. Here is a link to a typical company that make engine test systems: http://www.wright-k.com/testsys.html and a here is a pdf that briefly explains hot and cold engine test stands: http://www.iconics.com/industries/pdfs/SS-AUT-ComauPico.pdf
I have asked to take a factory tour, (no answer yet). Based on my plant visits to other auto and cycle plants, and the amount BRP publishes it has spent on the program, I would say the Spyder likely has a chassis dyno mid-assembly line. If it follows what I've seen in the past at other plants, after all the mechanical systems are installed, it would be run up through the gears, and a breaking test performed. The lines I have seen there is a "prompting screen" telling the "driver" when to shift and brake and the dyno is equipped with pass/fail analysis software.
After this test, the rest of body and interior assembly is usually done.
This is just an educated guess at this point though.
A the Viper assembly plant this is not a super aggressive run, just one to ensure all the mechanical work as designed. Vipers are also randomly pulled for a road test by Quality control, if I recall, this one is about 6 miles. I see no reason that BRP Quality Control would not do something similar. Some plants have a special battery of tests they run on random units, and even randomly disassemble a completed unit.
Engine testing is done at the engine plant with very specialized test units. They are run, but not in the way most people consider "run". The test units are highly specialized. Here is a link to a typical company that make engine test systems: http://www.wright-k.com/testsys.html and a here is a pdf that briefly explains hot and cold engine test stands: http://www.iconics.com/industries/pdfs/SS-AUT-ComauPico.pdf
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I live in Georgia and I spoke with my dealer in Florida this week and he said that they expect to seem them at the dealership on the 16th of October. I am waiting patiently and we still have good weather to ride.
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We are. Of the first three that we get, 2 are sold and 1 is going to be a permanent demo unit
G
Guest
·when is that going to be??? The big question where are the SPYDERS??????
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