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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, I have noted several things related of the fuel system, first a fuel smell when the traffic is slow, the mpg is higer when I start a travel but reduces over the time also always when I arrive at home the Bars in the fuel indicator are one less at the next day, by example 6 one day and 5 at the next, at first I thougth It was my imagination or something related to the expansion of liquids when hot, to check I decided to take the temperature of the tank when I arrive to home, to my surprise when I opened the cap the fuel was boiling vigorously, I have done some checks and when I drive about 30 Km the tank get enough heat to make the fuel boil, specially if I drive on traffic, I tought it was because of the low speed, but to check I drove on a clear road with the same result: the tank makes the fuel to boil, The local dealer (on Queretaro Mexico) saw this situation and call to the regional dealer (Guadalajara Mexico) but with no positive response (more exacty without response), of course the spyder has some recirculating system to burn the gases, but it only works when the engine is on but if the engine is off the fuel is evaporating to the atmosphere and those gases are higly inflamble or even explosive with the apropiate conditions, and even with the system working the quantity of gases can exceed the recirculating capacity, maybe nobody has noted the problem becase we usually open the tank to refill, but never see inside it, could someone check if their spyder has the same problem?, maybe this is the reason of the poor MPG some users have reported and the gas smell other have noted
 

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Boiling Fuel

Thanks for the information. I have experienced fuel smells while stopped in traffic as well.
I may have had this same experience this weekend. My fuel gauge was down to two bars but the light had not come on yet. I filled up but found that I only needed three gallons. I ran another 50 miles in 70 deg weather and the gauge dropped to 50% before being parked. In the morning the gauge jumped back up to above 75%. I will check the gas and tank temperature.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Boilig fuel

Hi, my local dealer asked me to leave my spyder to investigate the issue, they hve had it almost for a month witout fix the problem, I have checked on other forums and I'am more convinced that It's more than a poor mileage problem.

There are some reports of fires on spyders, even one with the owner driving, well relating the events I come to the conclusion that the boiling on the tank can have something or much to do with those incidents.

If you have a boiling tank you can reach enough presure (in fact other guy reports that he saw a loose line on his spyder and when he tried to relocate to it's position the pressure made the line get free, spilling hot fuel) to have a leak of vapor, this jet has high velocity so there are transfer of momentum from the fuel to the air, just like the gas from spud on your range draw air to the burner (sorry about the technicisms but I can't find an easy way to explain this on simpler terms), so you have a rich mixture of gas and air, if this mixture is near a source of energy such as heat or a spark from the electric circuits of the spyder (such as switching a light with a small miscontact) or even an electrostatic discharge (again like your domestic range, a spark is enough to lite a burner) you can start the fire, if the jet is small the flame can be as small as the flame of a lighter and can start a small fire on plastics that can be controlled if detected on time, but if it is a large jet or the fire is not detected, the spyder is doomed.
I leave this link if you want to se the result of the fire.
Spyder fire - can-am Spyder Forums - SpyderTalk.com

I haven't had a satisfactory response from my dealer and Im afraid that they don't think this is a serious problem, so its necesary your colaboration to make BRP search a solution and make a recall to fix all the spyders, If you had detected this problem too you must file a complait at The Office of Defects Investigation (ODI), an office within the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, if there are enough complaints ( so if someone besides you have had a problem, ask he/she to file another complaint) and if there are a real safety problem they can make BRP find a remedy which must be provided at no cost to the owner of the vehicle, the adress is:
Office of Defects Investigation (ODI), File A Safety Complaint
There are at least a complaint for a fire but its necesary to have more to make an investigation, I can't to file one about the problem I find because I'm not from US.


P. D. I am an engineer with a Ph. D. so I have enough education to note the diference between boiling and bubbling from a line and to discard many ridiculous explanations about the same problem I have read on other motorcycle related forums most of them related to atvs, also I have made some experiments at the lab, heating some gasoline on a vessel and I have found that the gasoline I used on my spyder start to boil at about 43 C but to reach the intensity similar to wich I saw on the tank after a short ride of only 30 km the temperature was more than 70 C.
 

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boiling fuel

new 2010RTS owner here, but have done some reading where the exhaust pipe weld fails under the gas tank. Saw some pics and looks like things get heated up pretty quick. have not had my side panels off to check but would sure start there.
Like to know how you make out and are safe.
Sounds pretty serious to me.

On a less serious note. I have some sort of iPod adaptor that came with the bike. A block of plastic about 1 inch by 2 inches with one lead to the plug adaptor on the right side of the tour pack and another lead to the jack on the ipod. Does this allow full remote control of an iPod?

Safe travel folks.
 

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1. The fuel in the tank should not boil!
2. There should be a heat shield between the tank and the exhaust pipe.
3. Check for an exhaust leak that can result in markedly increased temps.
4. Get rid of the evap cannister Cannisterectomy It's a fire just waiting to happen! :eek:
5. Wrap the exhaust.
 

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Yeah that sounds like a very dangerous issue, the dealer might be trying to downplay the seriousness if the issue. But you would think they would get it back to you quickly to make up for it.
 

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Fuel Boiling

I am a new RT owner, and immediately after taking possession, I could smell gas. Thought I had a leak, but nothing dripped. I rode it for approximately 80 miles and the gas gauge was on 1/4 tank. I thought I was losing gas. Filled it and it took 3 gallons. I have now got around 220 miles on it, and have used about 9 gallons of gas. When I shut it down after driving 70 miles I opened the gas cap and could see and hear the gas bubbling. One of the posts here said that I need to have the exhaust pipe wrapped and a heat shield plate between the exhaust and gas tank. How do I know if that has been done, and if not, how do I get it fixed? Shouldn't there be a recall or something. I do not feel safe on the machine with this problem.
 

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Boiling Fuel kills purchase

I had my heart set on buying a RT but after reading about the the boiling fuel problem, I cannot accept the potential safety problem especially after reading about multiple fire incidents. I think I will hold off buying a Spyder until Can Am comes up with a fix for what appears to be a design flaw.
 

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OK, update time. I was wrong :eek: And unfortunately I'm sure I'll be wrong again in the future :eek:

Gasoline boils at anywhere from 100F to 400F depending on the formulation.
The formulation varies by various zones around the country.

Gasoline in Alaska boils at a lower temp because it has to vaporize at a lower temp because of the cold weather.

Gasoline with a high alcohol content will also tend to boil sooner than one without alcohol.

So my original statement that the gasoline in your tank shouldn't boil is not correct. In fact it may indeed boil. Particularly on a hot day with a hot engine when you come to a stop.
It turns out that this is not unusual and can happen in the fuel systems of cars resulting in poor idle or failure to start on a hot restart. The term for that was vapor lock.
It is also not unusual in motorcycles where the gas tank is right above the hot engine.

The purpose of the charcoal cannister is to collect those vapors and then when the purge solenoid opens to suck those vapors back into the intake to be burned.

The solutions I outlined will still help.
There probably is already insulation on the tank but you should check. When I opened my 08 up after purchase there were a couple of places that the insulation was missing.
Wrapping the exhaust also helps in reducing the heat in the engine bay and thus the heat transfered to the gas tank. Wrapping the exhaust is not something that BRP feels obligated to do but it will make a difference not only to your gas tank but in rider comfort as well.
The cannisterectomy is still a good suggestion. It's real easy for these to become saturated and they stop functioning as a vapor absorber and instead just emit vapors all the time which I believe is a fire hazard. By venting directly to atmosphere you are polluting the air (a little) but that is far safer than a vapor saturated bomb in the engine bay.

The ultimate soulution is to change gasoline provider. Not all gasolines are formulated the same. Some will boil and others may not.
 

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I had my heart set on buying a RT but after reading about the the boiling fuel problem, I cannot accept the potential safety problem especially after reading about multiple fire incidents. I think I will hold off buying a Spyder until Can Am comes up with a fix for what appears to be a design flaw.
See my post above.
BRP did come out with a fix that reroutes the canister vent out of the engine bay.
Almost all fires have been in 08 models that haven't been updated.
I am aware of no RT fires.
 

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Is there any more feedback on this? Did they address any of this on the RT 2011. I wanted to buy one of these but now after reading this I am really concerned and may not go forward until I get confirmation that Can-Am fixes this problem. Please help ASAP....I was supposed to call this morning to confirm my purchase. Thanks!
 

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Is there any more feedback on this? Did they address any of this on the RT 2011. I wanted to buy one of these but now after reading this I am really concerned and may not go forward until I get confirmation that Can-Am fixes this problem. Please help ASAP....I was supposed to call this morning to confirm my purchase. Thanks!
I think you will be fine they were talking about the 08 models.
 
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