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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All. I have a 2011 RT. There are far too many times that after completing a turn, the turn signal does not cancel, requiring I turn a tad bit farther to engage the self-cancelling mechanism. I think the cancellation does not take place until the front end is back at dead center---exactly zero degrees---which is more than a tad silly since turns are often less than a full 90 degrees in a short distance, meaning the turn signals continue flashing long after I have competed the turn. I too often spend too much of my attention on the bloody signals and too little on my driving, and would dearly love to be able to adjust the self-cancelling switch so that it will cancel once the front end has reached, say, 10 degrees from straight ahead. Two problems: 1) is there any adjustment possible; and 2) where is the mechanism that does the cancelling located? I can't find anything in the shop manual and the techs don't seem especially knowledgeable about anything Spyder-related.
 

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I do not think you can adjust the self-canceling time, however, you can manually cancel the turn signals by press IN on the switch.
 

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Well I don't know how the mechanism works either but there MUST be something about it in the shop manual somewhere.

And a trained Spyder mechanic at a dealership should be able to find out how it works.
My guess is that there really is NOT an adjustment but something might be loose or mis-aligned or sticking.

I'm pretty sure that it does NOT work like your typical mechanical cancel on a car but is somehow triggered by centrifugal force. I've only had that happen with my RT very rarely, when a shallow turn is taken slowly I think.
You might try applying a bit more acceleration during the turns.
 

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I do not think you can adjust the self-canceling time, however, you can manually cancel the turn signals by press IN on the switch.
The signals should auto stop for two reasons:
Actually making a turn, regardless of how long they have been flashing.
And a "time out" if they have been flashing too long.
Those are two entirely different mechanisms.
 

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The auto cancellation is based on the Steering Angle Sensor. I believe your dealer can use BUDS to properly adjust the system.
 

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The auto cancellation is based on the Steering Angle Sensor. I believe your dealer can use BUDS to properly adjust the system.
BUT.....before you go through all of that, you might want to review your cornering technique.

If you tend to start the turn early and gently "sweep" through it, try going deeper into the corner and turning more sharply.
There are other advantages to that too.

I doubt that the steering angle sensor can be "adjusted" but if it's going bad it could be replaced.

I am on several Spyder forums and don't remember anybody EVER reporting a problem with the steering angle sensor before. But that doesn't mean that it can't happen.
 

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I didn't mean to imply the SAS was malfunctioning.

The SAS has four connections: power, ground, CANbus High, CANbus Low. In addition to communicating the steering angle to the VCM it also communicates it to the console. The centering process consists of pointing the front wheels straight ahead and then using BUDS to inform the VCM and console of this.

There are no mechanical adjustments nor is there a "Centered" wire or message. It's just CANbus messages indicating an unreferenced angle. The VCM and console reference the angle to straight ahead.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I didn't mean to imply the SAS was malfunctioning.

The SAS has four connections: power, ground, CANbus High, CANbus Low. In addition to communicating the steering angle to the VCM it also communicates it to the console. The centering process consists of pointing the front wheels straight ahead and then using BUDS to inform the VCM and console of this.

There are no mechanical adjustments nor is there a "Centered" wire or message. It's just CANbus messages indicating an unreferenced angle. The VCM and console reference the angle to straight ahead.
Thanks, Bert. I get lost in the forest of initials, but are you saying that perhaps an angle other than straight ahead could be programmed into the VCM? While I understand that cars use a quite different (mechanical) method of cancelling the turn signals, you will notice that none of them ever require you to go all the way back to center before the signals are squelched. There is a good reason for that. Turn signals would still be blinking after cornering on many cars and confusing everyone--thus eliminating the value of the signals in the first place--if the cars were set up like the Spyder. It would be great if I could get the shut-off set for more like 15 degrees from center. You have my hopes up. The suggestion that the problem can be resolved by changing my cornering technique falls on very deaf ears.
 

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Lancer -- that is exactly correct. The Steering Angle Sensor simply measures an angle and then transmits that angle to the Vehicle Control Module (responsible for the safety of our 3-wheelers) and the console (responsible for all the human interface stuff). Both the VCM and console are software-intensive and BUDS tailors the operating parameters of that software to your specific machine and, via the handlebar controls, to you.

CANbus is a standard used in motor vehicles to communicate among the various "intelligent" sensors, actuators and controller components (there are 11 on the Spyder's CANbus). Basically the advent of cheap automotive-tough electronics compared to expensive bundles of copper wires enabled the creation of CANbus.

One Spyder CANbus node (MSL) is the left-hand handlebar switch assembly. For the most part all those buttons, including the turn actuator but not the horn button, generate CANbus messages rather than voltages over individual wires. Even to the extent that the right-hand handlebar cruise control switches connect via wires to the left-hand switch to generate CANbus messages rather than directly connect via wires to the console, ECM, etc.

BUDS is the BRP Utility and Diagnostic System. One utility is to "align" the SAS. This alignment may be needed after wheels are aligned or the Dynamic Power Steering component is replaced or even if some weird electromagnetic pulse event changed your operating parameters.

With that background, let's examine your issue. There are two parts: (1) what angle turn engages automatic cancellation; and (2) are the angles equal left and right?

My 2014 engages at about 45 degrees which works for most everything but lane changes. And between my thumb, gloves and switch, manual cancellation is fussy to I installed bright repeaters.

Speedometer Vehicle Car Plant Odometer


If the angles are the same but greater than 45 degrees then find another Spyder rider and see what they think of your angles. I believe the angles are programmed into the console's software and only the "Center" position can be changed. On the other hand, maybe your dealer has a software update with better angles.

If the angles are different then definitely a BUDS alignment should be considered.

BTW that's an analog voltmeter on the left and an analog oil pressure gauge on the right. I'm replacing the voltmeter with an analog clock and modifying the oil pressure gauge to also measure air suspension pressure.
 

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The suggestion that the problem can be resolved by changing my cornering technique falls on very deaf ears.
Well then just SUFFER.:p

Because I think it is highly unlikely that there is any other fix.
Especially if you have the problem when turning in both directions.

I almost NEVER have a problem with it and I think you are the ONLY one who has complained about it in the 5 years or so I've followed Spyder forums.

I did, however, add some LEDs to the mirrors so I can easily SEE when the signals are blinking.
But somehow I suspect that suggestion will fall on deaf ears too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Well then just SUFFER.:p

Because I think it is highly unlikely that there is any other fix.
Especially if you have the problem when turning in both directions.

I almost NEVER have a problem with it and I think you are the ONLY one who has complained about it in the 5 years or so I've followed Spyder forums.

I did, however, add some LEDs to the mirrors so I can easily SEE when the signals are blinking.
But somehow I suspect that suggestion will fall on deaf ears too.
HA! A lot you know.😁 Even Bert, who seems to have a damned good grasp of this miserable collection of electronics a Spyder lugs around, has high vis repeaters for the turn signals because he, like I, find the manual cancellation to be less than functional. For me, I find that method to as likely start the signals flashing in the opposite direction or simply prolong the already blinking lights when one tries to use push to cancel. It can be done, but easy, mindless (my fav), and reliable it is not. The idea of some extra lights to help me see if the dumb thing did what I wanted would be a second choice; it's not safe to be gazing at the dash display when I should be driving. I'd rather fix it, and I intend to talk to a shop tech to see if he/she can/will check it out and possibly change the angle setting, but Spyders thus far seem to me to be quite arrogant and unlikely to be amenable to anything the owner wants to change, so I may be stuck with installing extra lights to help deal with the issue. Given my feelings about the fierce opposition my Spyder will exhibit to adding anything new, including lights, do you have any suggestions on duplicating your apparently successful set-up? By the way, I suspect I'm the only rider to crab about the damned things because everyone is prone to kneel at the throne of the CANbus mysteries, but I have ridden long enough on many different steeds that I expect my machinery to be my partner, not my boss. Thanks for the tip.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'm quite sure the angle is the same in both directions so it would seem that I will need some luck to get anything changed. Rats. I will, however, check it out with a tech when I can. I have many issues with this electronics-loaded beast, especially dependability, but this issue is a good example of my dissatisfaction with the heavy hands of the engineers who seem as arrogant as the machine they have designed. I very much appreciated your explanation of the interconnection of the various main parts of the system. I need to print it off and keep it in my shop manual to help in sorting things out. Do the extra bright repeater lights help? And if so, do you have any suggestions as to how to duplicate your installation? If I can't change the angles, I need to change something. The stock signals are very irritating and a bit dangerous.
 

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do you have any suggestions on duplicating your apparently successful set-up?
I got a set of small LED strips that stick on the housing of the rear view mirrors, either from TikeLED or LaMonster.
They are also visible (hopefully) by vehicles slightly to the rear and in adjacent lanes.
They are noticeable without actually shifting your attention right AT them.
They are almost "plug and play". One hole needs to be drilled inside the mirror housing.

Edit: Couldn't find the paperwork for mine but it looks like this:


Notes:
If you get all upset and obsess about things that don't work exactly the way you think they should, you will have a miserable life indeed.

Starting your turns too soon can be dangerous. If your wheels are turned just a bit......and then you are bumped from behind, you can be thrown into oncoming traffic.

I don't give a TLRA whether you take my advice or not but people who have lived a LOT longer than you can often help you learn stuff that you need to know.
Good luck solving your problem.
Please let us know what the shop tells you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I got a set of small LED strips that stick on the housing of the rear view mirrors, either from TikeLED or LaMonster.
They are also visible (hopefully) by vehicles slightly to the rear and in adjacent lanes.
They are noticeable without actually shifting your attention right AT them.
They are almost "plug and play". One hole needs to be drilled inside the mirror housing.

Edit: Couldn't find the paperwork for mine but it looks like this:


Notes:
If you get all upset and obsess about things that don't work exactly the way you think they should, you will have a miserable life indeed.

Starting your turns too soon can be dangerous. If your wheels are turned just a bit......and then you are bumped from behind, you can be thrown into oncoming traffic.

I don't give a TLRA whether you take my advice or not but people who have lived a LOT longer than you can often help you learn stuff that you need to know.
Good luck solving your problem.
Please let us know what the shop tells you.
Many thanks for everything but the preaching. A LOT older than my age of 80 is tough to do but good luck with that.
 

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Many thanks for everything but the preaching. A LOT older than my age of 80 is tough to do but good luck with that.
Well sometimes the "preaching" is all that you really need.......regardless of your age. :)
But you're right, you got me by about 4 years.

My mirror lights actually came from TricLED.

Good luck learning to love your new ride.
 
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